Fireworks falling into the pond...

[LindaB]

Question; Of the three separate & equally outrageous acts of large amounts of fireworks exploding over & consequently falling into the pond; can this help in water quality?

Anyone know what the effects are?

We're not talking about a simple bottle rocket or two - there were "3" separate, prolonged instances from the end of White ave, and the end of Shore drive, at water's edge, participating in this jaw dropping event.

[CWA]

From my experience in negotiating with Pentagon officials in controlling certain “training” activities which have environmental impacts, specifically open burning/open detonation (OB/OD), the EPA cited several contaminants of concern for the ambient air, soil, and water quality. Open burning and open detonation cover: waste burning, waste propellants, explosives, and pyrotechnics. Contaminants of concern include heavy metals (e.g., lead, mercury, and chromium), polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (several are considered potential carcinogens), and organic chemicals (e.g., benzene, chloroform, and perchlorate). Several years ago, the New England regional office of the EPA issued an order for the Mass Military Reservation (MMR) to cease these “training” activities (OB/OD) because of the contamination threat to the underlying aquifer, which is the drinking water source for the Cape.

As it relates to White Pond, it is difficult to evaluate the impact without water and sediment data. Even so, this is another source of uncontrolled and unnecessary pollution. Some may argue that the pond is large and that dilution is the solution. This narrow thinking hasn’t worked for the military, or more locally, for MWRA in the cases of Boston Harbor and the drinking water reservoirs.

[juliem]

Is anyone willing to send this info to the BFRT committee chair and the selectmen? I've mentioned fireworks in the woods near the pond before as just one example of a 'people management' concern but my voice has been heard often enough to invoke the deaf ear.

I don't know if this was from residents (sounds like it) or otherwise but it might be worthwhile to keep the pressure up on the challenges the pond continues to face

[WhitePond]

Originally Posted by juliem

Is anyone willing to send this info to the BFRT committee chair and the selectmen? I've mentioned fireworks in the woods near the pond before as just one example of a 'people management' concern but my voice has been heard often enough to invoke the deaf ear.

I don't know if this was from residents (sounds like it) or otherwise but it might be worthwhile to keep the pressure up on the challenges the pond continues to face

Hello;

There are several bfrt folk (including some on the advisory committee) who view these threads & forums regularly yet are not coerced to weigh in.

An email to one or more citing this thread would not hurt, however, we need someone to perform this action. ( any takers? )

[CWA]

Originally Posted by juliem

Is anyone willing to send this info to the BFRT committee chair and the selectmen? I've mentioned fireworks in the woods near the pond before as just one example of a 'people management' concern but my voice has been heard often enough to invoke the deaf ear.

I don't know if this was from residents (sounds like it) or otherwise but it might be worthwhile to keep the pressure up on the challenges the pond continues to face

You have a good suggestion. Aside from getting this via NET, it might be worthwhile to send hard copies of some key excerpts from these discussions to the BFRT Committee Chair and the Selectman. Some people respond/prefer paper versus e-mails and phone calls since there exists "formal documentation of concerns from residents" in front of them.

[natasg]

Originally Posted by LindaB

Question; Of the three separate & equally outrageous acts of large amounts of fireworks exploding over & consequently falling into the pond; can this help in water quality?

Anyone know what the effects are?

We're not talking about a simple bottle rocket or two - there were "3" separate, prolonged instances from the end of White ave, and the end of Shore drive, at water's edge, participating in this jaw dropping event.

yeah, the fireworks drove my Dog nuts as well just like thunder does

[jsprott]

I'm sorry that I haven't been able to respond to this thread sooner, but I've been away for several weeks. And, I did not see the fireworks around White Pond that have been discussed here.

I certainly understand concerns about possible impacts on the water quality of the pond, but I am not technically qualified to respond. My intuitive response is that the fireworks were not a significant factor, especially as my guess is that the amount of fireworks in relation to the volume of water in the pond was quite small. However, I will bring it up with our water quality consultant.

One responder to this thread mentioned water quality and sediment information. Water quality information for quite a few parameters is available at the sub-forum "Friends of White Pond" here at Whitepond.org. Information on some limited sediment testing at White Pond that was done in 2002 as part of a "Screening Level Ecological Risk Assessment" for another pond is available at the Concord Board of Health offices.

My major concern about fireworks is the possibility of a fire, and that could be a very bad outcome. However, if the fireworks came from the 'end of White Ave. and Shore Drive', it is possible that these were "neighborhood" fireworks - does anyone have any information about that?

Judith Sprott

[CWA]

[My intuitive response is that the fireworks were not a significant factor, especially as my guess is that the amount of fireworks in relation to the volume of water in the pond was quite small. However, I will bring it up with our water quality consultant.

One responder to this thread mentioned water quality and sediment information. Water quality information for quite a few parameters is available at the sub-forum "Friends of White Pond" here at Whitepond.org. Information on some limited sediment testing at White Pond that was done in 2002 as part of a "Screening Level Ecological Risk Assessment" for another pond is available at the Concord Board of Health offices.

My major concern about fireworks is the possibility of a fire, and that could be a very bad outcome. However, if the fireworks came from the 'end of White Ave. and Shore Drive', it is possible that these were "neighborhood" fireworks - does anyone have any information about that?

Judith Sprott[/quote]

Hi Judith et al.

Thank you for pointing out the location of data pertaining to the water and sediment analyses. I’ll go searching for the information that you’ve mentioned. And thanks for alerting the water consultant to these issues.


As you may know, sediment results show a cumulative profile of contaminants. And 5 years of exposure is a long time for an unprotected resource. (You indicated that the last sample was in 2002.) So, in light of that, it is uncertain as to how representative or accurate this information is in portraying the current state/health of White Pond.

You are absolutely right in your response: fire is without a doubt a very big concern. But moreover, your comment also highlights the possibility for activities of other people (“neighborhood fireworks”) and not those of White Pond residents. Your point exemplifies the previous posted concerns which underscored potential damages resulting from bad behavior either of non-caring individuals (those not respecting of other people’s personal property or the environment) or ignorant visitors. In both cases, this clearly depicts the likelihood for the exacerbation of undesirable scenarios if the rail-trail proposal goes forward as is.

Finally, as you say: White Pond is indeed large (“volume of water”). My original comment was that if one continues to think that way and thus allow for continual “small” sources of uncontrolled pollution to this Pond, it does not account for the additive or synergistic effects of these contaminants. It would not be sound (environmentally and public health-wise) to excuse each separate act as an isolated, inconsequential incident. If unchecked, they collectively could produce a more detrimental impact in the end. And from what I’ve read here, White Pond is a kettle pond and therefore relies only on its biological system to remove any natural or man-made contaminants. That is, there is no other hydro-geological condition (e.g. adjoining tributary or river) to help “dilute” added pollution. Ultimately, dilution can never be the solution for pollution.

(This Forum is an important vehicle to enhance communication and heighten awareness for all parties. So, for informational sharing: I have a technical background in water and toxicology and was as one of several people who developed the EPA’s Risk Assessment/Risk Management Training Program. Therefore, I am also very familiar with the quality and quantity of information necessary for a well-thought out and representative human health and ecological risk assessment.)

[LindaB]

Originally Posted by jsprott

My major concern about fireworks is the possibility of a fire, and that could be a very bad outcome. However, if the fireworks came from the 'end of White Ave. and Shore Drive', it is possible that these were "neighborhood" fireworks - does anyone have any information about that?

Judith Sprott

Hi there - the actual duration of these independent displays were in the order of 15 minutes for the end of Shore drive & over the course of an hour+ (in total) from the end of White avenue where a group of perhaps 15 people were gathered.

Regarding the "White avenue" fireworks; one particular display involved a large amount of fireworks being canoed out to a raft followed by a lengthy, well lit display followed by a dumping of the carcass of said large display INTO THE POND.

[WhitePond]

FYI; there are discussions within the neighborhood to ensere this will not occur this season - stay aware.

Originally Posted by LindaB

Hi there - the actual duration of these independent displays were in the order of 15 minutes for the end of Shore drive & over the course of an hour+ (in total) from the end of White avenue where a group of perhaps 15 people were gathered.

Regarding the "White avenue" fireworks; one particular display involved a large amount of fireworks being canoed out to a raft followed by a lengthy, well lit display followed by a dumping of the carcass of said large display INTO THE POND.

[Susan]

Last year there were 2 firework displays/month May-Sept. Plus the 3 biggirs on the 4th/ This year there have been 2 so far, over at the mouth of Sachem's Cove, late at night.

Having viewed the 4th displays from the water I can say that two of them were Waltham residents with summer places here (having parties) and the other one was over by the sailboat club, another party. Who has an idea of an action plan to educate these people and prevent a recurrence this year? I saw one of the pyros, who the guests were calling "Pyro Pete" panic and dunk the large fireworks box into the pond a couple of times before riding back to the land in a boat with it from the raft where he hadignited them.

[jsprott]

Hi Susan,

I can understand your concern about fireworks. I did talk with our water quality scientist last year and he felt that, even at the levels described, fireworks would not significantly affect water quality. However, that doesn't mean that we should ignore them. If there are increasing numbers of people with increasing numbers of fireworks perhaps there could eventually be a cumulative effect.

There are other reasons for enforcing MA law banning fireworks - for instance, in undeveloped areas of the pond, fires would be a major concern, especially if the woods are dry.

I am not aware of any organized effort to deal with either residents or out-of-towners who discharge fireworks at White Pond. The most clear cut response would be to call the police. You could also bring your concerns to the White Pond Advisory Committee - Fred Lingren is the chairman and can be contacted at fred.lindgren@fmr.com.

Hope this helps.

Judith Sprott

[Ric]

Here's some environmental information about fireworks

http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/translating-uncle-sam/stories/are-fireworks-bad-for-the-environment

[jsprott]

Originally Posted by Ric

Here's some environmental information about fireworks

http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/translating-uncle-sam/stories/are-fireworks-bad-for-the-environment

I have just had a chance to look over the information at the website referenced above. Although there may be legitimate concerns about what bad things fireworks can do to the environment, I was put off by the way some facts were presented. For instance, the four naturally-occurring isotopes of strontium are not radioactive. Radioactive strontium is produced in nuclear reactions and, as far as I know, is not available for use in fireworks.

Painting an exaggerated or extreme picture of the environmental hazards of any activity or material diminishes the effectiveness of environmental groups in general.

[vics]

Originally Posted by jsprott

I have just had a chance to look over the information at the website referenced above. Although there may be legitimate concerns about what bad things fireworks can do to the environment, I was put off by the way some facts were presented. For instance, the four naturally-occurring isotopes of strontium are not radioactive. Radioactive strontium is produced in nuclear reactions and, as far as I know, is not available for use in fireworks.

Painting an exaggerated or extreme picture of the environmental hazards of any activity or material diminishes the effectiveness of environmental groups in general.

Good points Judith though rumor has it that the freeman people are attempting to also railroad in a nuclear reactor (with town funds LOL), subsequent to their 'rail trail' attempt - so perhaps its timely